Podcast

Peter Jacobs, Lay of the Brand  

Welcome to Lay of the Brand, where we talk with the experts on tech, marketing, creative and PR to learn what’s new, what’s working and what’s next. I’m Peter Jacobs with Merritt Group. 

Influencer Marketing is blowing up for consumer brands, but as we speak, it’s becoming a huge part of B2B marketing surveys tell us that anywhere from 70 to 80% of B to B marketers say influencer marketing works for them, and the ROI is potentially huge. So what’s keeping you from trying it?  

Well, to find out how influencer marketing can make sense for B2B strategies, we’re talking with Nidhi Mehta. She’s the social and influencer lead for B2B and B2C display at Samsung Electronics America. She also writes very popular scripted podcasts for Gen Z media. Thanks for being here. Nidhi.

Nidhi Mehta, Samsung Electronics America  

Thank you for having me. 

Peter Jacobs  

Let’s start off by discussing a campaign that’s not necessarily B2B, but has some good lessons for B2B marketers about being successful with influencers. Samsung recently launched a campaign with luxury real estate YouTuber Enes Yilmazer to promote Samsung’s LED displays. Why was influencer marketing the right choice for this campaign? 

Nidhi Mehta  

Well, it was really interesting. So, our all-in-one micro-LED displays and our Wall display are pretty impressive, and there’s not really much, if anything, like it out on the market. But traditionally, we’ve been marketing it to businesses, lobbies, places where that you want that big wow factor, right for your clientele. But there was some word of mouth spread on these and we were seeing it more and more in people’s homes, which was interesting to us, and so I think we realized that we had an opportunity to build awareness on this product in a place that we hadn’t really popped into, which was, you know, technically high net worth individual homes, but homes anybody was really willing to spend a pretty penny on a gorgeous display. 

And so I think we started to ask ourselves a few questions. One, why, why were we seeing this business motif, if you will, start popping up in homes and people’s personal residences. And then who, after we realized the why, which was: it works, it’s really beautiful, and it has multiple functions, who could really share those benefits in a thoughtful, interesting and educated way? And we could have done like a broad ad campaign on it. But let’s face it, this is an expensive luxury product with a fairly niche clientele when looking outside of businesses. 

So, when Enes was presented to us as a potential influencer to help share the at home use cases and the very unique benefits of the product. The pieces kind of just fell together. Here was somebody who is known in the luxury real estate, knowledgeable of the products that are out there, on the auctions that are out there. And because of this, is trusted among not only you know, home buyers, but architects, builders and installation partners and everything kind of that we were looking for in terms of creating the awareness. 

So, we looked at this as an opportunity to have a true partnership with somebody who was genuinely enthusiastic about the product and was trusted in this space, so that made him really light up as the person we wanted to work with.

Peter Jacobs  

What kind of results are you seeing early on? It’s relatively early in the campaign, on channels where you might not have expected to see a good response, yeah, and

Nidhi Mehta  

it’s a great question. I think what we’re seeing is a really strong response. I mean, I think many YouTube plays have been great, but what’s really impressive is how Instagram has kind of taken to this, just by marrying our audiences. So we did a collab post with him. We’ve done stories with him that drive directly to our purchasing sites. And so seeing that traffic engagement has been really, really interesting. And I think just the opportunity of marrying like the right audience externally and the right audience internally. 

So, the audience that we own is really it’s just brilliant, and I think it’s growing exponentially. Now, I may be wrong, but I feel like our views are continuing to grow, even though this has been out in market for about a month. So that’s really nice. And I think, again, like the biggest thing that he did with our product and with his knowledge was he created a piece where he was not just telling us about the product, he was showing it to us. 

And I think the age old “show, don’t tell” philosophy and strong storytelling resonates here as well. That’s not just something that you’re going to do in television or in film or wherever or in a book. It’s something that you’re doing with content creation in general. And so I think that was maybe our magic key.

Peter Jacobs  

The things that you brought up here, I’m hearing them focused on this B2C, high end luxury product, but it also sounds like a lot of these same elements make sense for an enterprise application or some other technology, because you’ve got to convince a lot of people to make a pretty sizable investment and show them there’s going to be something they get out of it that they don’t Have. Now are you seeing that kind of correlation?

Nidhi Mehta  

Yeah. I mean, what’s interesting is that while it’s very B2C focused in terms of the clientele, we’ve put this up on our B2B channels, and because there are businesses that assist not just high net worth individuals, but just assist home buyers in terms of putting up technology, setting technology up. And so we put this on both B2C and B2B channels, because there’s this crossover of who our clientele can be and how our clientele can be informed and inform each other. 

And so I think that was really an interesting play on our part, because it could be a home buyer who says, “Hey, I saw this. This looks really cool,” to their installation partner, if they’re building a home, or their architect, if they’re building a home, their builder, and say, “What do you know about this?” And then that builder could be working with, like a third party installation group that will say, “Hey, we’re getting interest in this,” which is kind of what has happened. We have seen actual interest come through from this piece, in terms of builders being like, “Hey, we saw this. It looked really great. We are interested in purchasing one for the new house that we’re working on.” And so I think what works for B2C can work for B2B as well. 

I think there are a few things that you really need to keep in mind when you’re working with B2B, but I think one of the mistakes people make with B2B influencer marketing is not focusing on what your goal is, right? So we get a lot of pitches, right that are, “Hey, this influencer uses the same keywords that we’re looking to use. This influencer has the same audience that we’re looking to target.” And while audience is so, so incredibly important, and don’t get me wrong, it might be one of the most important things that you’re targeting. 

When you are working with a B2B influencer, it also has to be the goal of how we’re going to reach this audience and how we’re going to connect to them. And so, when you’re thinking about B2B marketing, a lot of people make the mistake of changing the tone, making it stuffier, talking about specs and specs alone without bringing the story to life. I think the nice thing that we did with Enes was that we had a real 360 campaign that brought that story to life. So, no matter where somebody was in their buying cycle, right? They would have a piece that could connect to their mindset and hopefully open up their mind to something or inform their mind. 

So, we did not only the piece within Enes’s YouTube show, but we also, again, did different social posts on our channels, but we brought it out so we had, you know, we’ve incorporated CRM into this, and email touch points, and we’ve also incorporated a great Q&A piece of content. And so, no matter what sparked the initial interest through that YouTube video, we’ve created a number of different touch points where, if somebody is curious about this product and how to compare it to other products, or why it may be the right product, or what does it really look like, and what can it do? We have multiple touch points that can lead them to that information and help kind of resolve their curiosity or make them more intrigued. 

And I think that’s something different that from B2B and B2C marketing, because B2C marketing, it’s very much like, “Hi. I connect to you as my audience member by just being some version of myself and I have tummy troubles, and these probiotics really help. And if you order from me, you get 50% off your first subscription.” And it’s a very short buying cycle. It’s like, “Hey, I have some gut health issues too. I will also, I will purchase this and see if it works for me.” 

But when you’re talking about B2B marketing, it’s A, you’re probably going to be spending a lot more money up front and B, every industry has a different purchasing cycle, and you have to think about the fact that you need to keep their interest long enough to get to the point of when they’re ready to purchase. So you need to flag that interest, and then you need to sustain it.

Peter Jacobs  

One thing I heard you talking about was how you’re engaging somebody. And while, obviously, as you said, there’s differences in the methodology and the mindset of what goes into a B2C versus a B2B buying cycle, you’re not selling to a company, you’re selling to somebody in that company. So there has to be both the practical and the emotional engagement, and that seems to be where influencers can play a really strong role. 

Nidhi Mehta  

Yeah, I think having that emotional connection to something is incredibly important, no matter what kind of content you’re creating. I’ve created content from I’ve worked on soap operas and written for network soap operas. I’ve worked for overseas tween shows. I, you know, I write for a scripted podcast when I have the opportunity to. And I’ve written for corporate banking, FinTech, and now here in tech. 

And I think the most common way, or the one rule I think I’ve kind of carried throughout all of that, is the ability to evoke emotion. And that, I mean, what do you think about it? What are you looking for when you’re watching a television show or a movie, or even, like a news cycle, some sort of news cycle, like something is creating your interest, making you really, really like engaged in who the people you’re watching are, what the story that they’re telling is enough to go have a water cooler chat about it at the office the next day. “Hey, did you see that show? Can you believe they did this, this, that and the other?” And it’s all because it was had the ability to evoke emotion. 

Influencer Marketing is no different. You need to be able to, you know, for a B2B audience, specifically, you want to evoke the emotion of, hey, my business needs that. Or hey, that can solve for this pain point that we’re facing, that can elevate the customer experience for my customers, this will set us apart from everybody else, if we, you know, use it like this, and also we, we really, um, pride ourselves on working with our B2B customers as partners and creating solutions that and creating use cases that really suit them. 

So what’s cool is that when you get an influencer on the B2B side who understands that and can assist in that and be that partner as well, it’s pretty impressive, but it’s also very effective. You have an example, if you want me to share. 

Peter Jacobs  

Yeah, I’d love to hear an example.

Nidhi Mehta  

So, we worked last year with — for a couple of years, we’ve worked with him — but we worked with an education influencer last year. Now, when you look at like numbers outside of YouTube, you have moderate following. It wasn’t anything mind blowing, right? But he was an expert in the space of education technology. He had a great YouTube following and an even more impressive newsletter. 

Now these are the things that you’re probably normally looking for when you’re thinking about influencer marketing. You probably want something with a much, somebody with a much stronger social presence. But he knew what the technology could do, and so we shipped him the product, and we said, “Here it is. Here’s some basics on how to use it. Now you turn around and give us, I don’t know, nine ways you would improve your classroom experience by using this as a teacher,” because he was also a teacher. And he did, and he really brought it to life. He showed us, didn’t tell us how using this technology could make a difference in your classroom, what pain points it could solve for, where it could make the classroom more engaging, which is a problem in today’s classroom atmosphere. 

So, all of that was great, but we 360 that, and we had him talk about it, yes on socials, yes on his YouTube. But also we had him come to industry events and use it and talk to audiences which flocked to him. Um, and we put him in his newsletter, and we just really kind of attacked it from all angles, because it was clear that he was a partner that believed in this product and knew that it could be helpful if it was an investment school would like to make, right? 

And so he knocked it out of the park and we saw a phenomenal ROI on him compared to what we expected, because he just truly believed in the product and brought it to life.

Peter Jacobs  

Well, that’s interesting. So don’t start with the channel. Start with the influencer and how they connect with their audience 

Nidhi Mehta  

100% 

Peter Jacobs  

Well, let’s talk about the kinds of influencers, because that was a great example of somebody who not only reviewed the product in terms of what does it do, but talked about why it does it, and how that can be helpful. So he was able to make it real for the audience. You’ve got thought leaders and brand ambassadors, you’ve got event speakers. And, of course, they can all be all of those things, webinar presenters. There’s lots of different ways to be an influencer. What should someone who’s trying to get started in B2B influencer marketing from the corporate side, saying, “Hey, I want this kind of program for my organization,” what should they be thinking about in terms of finding an influencer among all those different types?

Nidhi Mehta  

Again, it goes back to what the goals are. If the goal is awareness, then yes, definitely go for that influencer who has a million plus followers and can talk about your product and bring it to life in their own way. But if you’re looking for pushing people down the funnel, I think it’s extremely important to not negate tactics that may not seem obvious, like the email marketing, like putting that influencer into a small local industry event, right? Because that influencer has made a name for themselves, and you can’t bet on the fact that all of the audience that you’re looking to attract is on those social media channels. 

Anyway, so yes, if you’re looking for a broad awareness play go for that large influencer. We did that this year. We did an awareness play in that same space, and we had an influencer who is very well liked, very popular, great numbers in terms of impressions, great numbers in terms of engagement, not great numbers in terms of click throughs and conversion and so, but that was okay, because that was our goal, right? Our goal was, hey, we need to let people know about this. 

So, depending on what your goal is like, really evaluate what channels you absolutely need a strong presence on, but also evaluate different modes of communication and what that influencers audience looks like in terms of you know, who’s listening to them, who’s following them, and why. So, understanding those aspects can help you create an influencer program that is kind of mind blowing in terms of ROI, as opposed to just creating awareness, right, like and I think awareness is incredibly important, but I don’t think the two should be mixed together. 

So, I think another thing that companies should look at doing is looking at a multi-influencer approach. Have macro, have macro influencers, great, but have a bunch of micro influencers as well. That happens so often on the B2C side. There’s no reason that shouldn’t happen on the B2B side. 

Peter Jacobs  

That’s a really good point. What I’m hearing is, influencer marketing is marketing. You’ve got to start with the audience, what their need is, where they are, what their pain points are, what they would love to have solved. And then you figure out, oh, influencer marketing is one way to address that audience, as opposed to saying, hey, let’s do influencer marketing, because all the cool kids are doing it, when you say, “Okay, well, let’s go with influencer marketing as part of our mix of outreach.” 

You mentioned that the metrics may not always show that, hey, we’re getting this many clicks, this much specific engagement. Of course, we know as marketers, you want the right engagement. How do you present that back to people who are looking over your shoulder and saying, “Hey, so what are the metrics like? We get a lot of clicks?” 

Nidhi Mehta  

Yeah, I think, I think again, and I don’t want to sound like a broken record, but I think when you go in with clear goals and you have that understanding of like, Hey, this is going to be great for impressions. It’s probably not going to do a lot for the bottom of the funnel. Or, hey, we may not get the impression numbers that we would love to get, but we’re going to convert sales with this guy. 

When you go in with that clear identification of how the influencer is going to be used, I think the reporting back becomes easier. I think also, when you’re playing with influencer marketing, you’re playing in a very unpredictable space, and I think it’s very important to know that there is always a risk, but the way that I look at it, I think the way that we look at it as a company is, what did we learn? Right? 

So, if you’re going in and your metrics are not what they want it to be, and you have to report that up then, then that’s fine, report it and say, Look, this didn’t work the way we planned. These are the reasons why this is what we’re going to do differently and adjust accordingly. I think the other nice thing about influencer marketing and marketing in general, is, when influencer marketing is just one specific tactic, right? How do we expand on the use of it. I think it’s so important. 

I think having rights is so important. So, when you’re getting that influencer, make sure you have the rights for the usability of that content across different tactics. So hey, it didn’t really work here, but maybe it’ll play well in CRM. Let’s throw it in a CRM and, like, tell this story again in a different way. Let’s make sure we’re sharing this video on our website. Let’s make sure we’re kind of blasting it across tactics to a increase metrics. But also, let’s not be married to it, right? Maybe we pick up. We know what didn’t work here. So now, how do we find somebody mid-tier, mid-campaign, that works in the place that we did not see what we wanted to see, and how do we pull that in from what we’ve learned? 

It’s kind of a long game that you have to play. It’s always going to be a test and learn. I don’t think there is, and I could be wrong, but I really don’t think there is anybody who knows exactly how influencer marketing is going to play out. You can judge by the metrics you’ve seen in the past, but algorithms change on the daily. There’s always something new. There’s always someone new, and so the stronger you believe that you have the right influencer with the right product or the right campaign, and the stronger that can work as a partnership, the safer you are, and then you can continue to iterate as necessary.

Peter Jacobs  

So how are you identifying the right influencers? Especially as you said, you could go with a campaign that has macro influencers and a bunch of micro ones. How do you even find them in the first place and determine if they really are a decent fit for you? 

Nidhi Mehta  

We are pitched influencers all the time. Bottom line is, I start with who they are and what they’re talking about, right? Who their audience is, is, I think so, so prime and so key, because you want to make sure that even if they have 1000 followers, right? What percentage of that followership is based and again, if you’re working with an education product, what percent of that followership is based in education technology? What if you’re working on healthcare. How many of those followers are in the healthcare field? Where are they located? 

I think the more you can cut down into the demographics of the followership, the better. But I also think there’s a lot to be said for this person’s presence, their accountability and their willingness to not just be somebody who is showing your product and saying, Hey, this is really cool for XYZ, but showing why and making that connection, I think I really consider influencer marketing as mass networking right like you want to make the right connections. 

And so the more you start looking at is this person, the right person to network with, in terms of getting the right people to connect to you. The more you start looking at it from that angle, the better off you’ll be in the long run, in terms of pushing people down the funnel, bringing in more business.

Peter Jacobs  

Influencers aren’t there to just throw out all the facts and specs of a product or a service or something you should buy, because there. Plenty of ways to get that information, and that’s a different part of the customer journey. 

Influencers are telling you a story about how this is going to impact your life in a positive way, whether that’s your personal life, because you’ve got this humongous, wonderful screen in your house, or your business life because now here’s a new operations management system that’s going to give you much more productivity, or some new devices that makes everybody much faster and more accurate at doing their jobs no matter where they are. 

So, they’re telling stories. They’re storytellers. You’re a storyteller. What makes for a good story to motivate the kind of response you’re looking for?

Nidhi Mehta  

Yeah, and I think we touched upon it earlier, but it’s emotion. At the end of the day, someone is going to say, I need that, or I think I might want that, or I need to know more. And the way to create that connection isn’t just the curiosity, but the emotion that comes from the vision being built, right when I’m building like a television show or anything scripted, I’m not just thinking of the plot. I am thinking about the character as well. 

You want that well rounded character to carry that plot through, and someone you feel something for, whether it’s that you see yourself in them, and you know you can say, Oh, I connect to that, where you have empathy for them, or maybe it’s a hate watch and you just want to see them get theirs. But the point is that you care. And so I think storytelling in general is about making people care. 

And if that means like, Hey, I care about how my clients are going to experience the waiting room, because this is a healthcare facility, and, you know, they’re here for probably some thing that’s not great, and so we want to make that experience as pleasant as possible. And I care about that how? How do I show them that that’s possible? How do I show them the ease that our technology will bring to their space? And how is this very complicated matter going to be simplified for my patients and having an influencer being able to bring their personal experiences, to the products, to the ideas, to the use cases, is a form of connection. It makes it real. It makes it tangible. 

And I think when things are become more than just an idea, that’s when it starts looking that’s when it starts resonating within, through that emotion, and I think that’s the absolute most important thing to do, whether it is writing, you know, a daytime soap opera, or you’re working with a, you know, multinational corporation, and you’re trying to bring humanness and real-life solutions through technology. 

Peter Jacobs  

A truism that has stayed with me throughout my career is that you’ve got to make it real for people, you have to figure out how to engage them emotionally by showing them you’re going to give them control over an uncontrollable situation, or you’re going to save them or make them money, or you’re just going to make them the hero of the story, because they solve the problem thanks to what it is you do. Are there other truisms, things that have stayed with you over time, that that apply still and that you see you’ll keep using? Yeah.

Nidhi Mehta  

I mean, I think emotion is the biggest one. I think knowing your audience is incredibly important and understanding them is incredibly important throughout all my content creation iterations, I think it’s only ever been about connection. How do you form that connection, right and what? How do you make that connection feel real? We’re in a world right now where it is harder and harder to connect, even though it’s easier and easier to connect. 

So, where do you bring that human and humanity to different stories that you’re telling? I write about cyborgs, but people are crying, and I’m not kidding, like that’s, you know, there’s a robot as a main character, and people are crying over her, and it’s, it’s, how do you how do you make people understand that we are all just people, and we’re looking for a connection to bring joy to better our lives, to better our businesses. And how do we do that in a way that’s so relatable that they can carry it with them into different parts of their own lives. So, I think that’s the biggest one for me. 

Peter Jacobs  

So, as we’re heading into 2025 what’s looking different for you about influencer marketing and what are you excited about?

Nidhi Mehta  

Oh, it is. An exciting space, because it is always changing. I think what we’re seeing is on the B2C side, I think we’re seeing a lot of change in how people are relating to some of the mainstream influencers. I also think our audiences are smart, and they can see a sale from a minute away. So it’s not about approaching with the sale. It’s approaching with the why. Like, why is this what you want for you? And why is it what I want for me? 

So, I think a lot of influencer marketing is going to go the way of becoming more authentic, less of a push, and more of this is why it’s working. This is where it’s working. This is how it’s working. If you want to make it work for you, then I can show you how to do it. I think also a lot of what I spoke about before is becoming more and more um accepted and used, which is, you know, don’t look at the just the number of followers on a singular platform. But really, how can this person help from a multi-targeted approach? How can we create a full 360 and how do we make that experience for them as authentic as possible? 

One of the things I always say to my influencers is that I never want this to sound not like you. So, change the words, change whatever. This is the message. This is what I hope you are getting out of it. This is what I want other people to get out of it. Do it how it works for you. And I think that’s becoming more and more of the way of influencer marketing, as opposed to the push and the interstitials and, you know, just that initial like, “Hey, I’m using this. You should use it too,” but just a more really authentic storytelling.

Peter Jacobs  

Right, with more and more people wanting to become influencers, it becomes, at first, a little more difficult to figure out who actually is one and is the right person to help support whatever your goals are, but it may also start weeding out the folks who aren’t quite as authentic or really dedicated to educating the audience.

Nidhi Mehta  

Yeah, I think the other thing that is really interesting about that in terms of more and more people wanting to become influencers and thinking they are influencers is that people with smaller audiences tend to be more believable. Their audiences trust them. They know that it’s a game. They know that, but they also know that, hey, this person has, you know, 9000 followers, great, but I would say the majority of them feel like they know them personally and that they trust them, whereas with a larger influencer, it’s like, Hey, this is, you know, you’re A-list star. Essentially, they’re like, “Oh, they’re getting paid so much money to do this.” And so that trust goes away, and so they’re less likely to take some of the influencer marketing as seriously that’s coming across their feed. 

I think there’s something to be said about looking at smaller communities and utilizing them in the future in terms of sharing your story, because it’s not like they’re going to be making a million dollars off of something, and that’s why they’re pushing it. It’s “Hey, they’re using it, and it’s real, and they like it, and so this is their recommendation, and their audience believes them.” So, you know, micro influencers are definitely, definitely something that should be looked at.